BOEL-Forums: Accepting the Influence of the Light unconditionally

Hi everybody,

Solan and I had a chat in the "Introduce Yourself" forum and we got a bit off-topic from mere introductions, and so we decided to start a new thread in this forum, and we welcome all of you to join us and to contribute your thoughts and experiences, too, if you so wish.

This is the conversation so far:
(I have clothed the letters in colours to make it easier to read.

)

Andrea wrote:
On the esoteric path,you often hear people say, oh dear, all the knowledge and wisdom of the ancients is gone and lost, we have but fragments of it and nowadays we will never be able to restore it so let us adore and honor the remnants of this wisdom of old and accept that we may never be able to achieve it ourselves- but I do not think that this is true. I do believe that all the knowledge and wisdom is still there - it is in our soul, i.e. our Higher Self, and it is with the Higher Beings that teach us once we are ready to receive these teachings---

Solan wrote:
I couldn't agree with you more! I truly do believe that what we are a part of is a living tradition. One that has never left us, and is still present in the way you so perfectly expressed it, for all of us to still partake of, and too for us to contribute to. Also I too believe that those Higher Beings in which we come into contact on the Inner Planes are ever present and gently guiding and expressing to us this wisdom. I also agree with you that it is all still here now, and all that is needed is for us to continually work to become more receptive to this wisdom and knowledge in such a way as to allow ourselves to become ever more and more clear expressions of it.

Andrea wrote
-If something or someone is lost, then it is those of us who turned away from the very source of Light and Life - but we can always return once that we realise and know in our hearts that there is something to turn to. (And of course a place to go to, and teachings to attend to. It is good to know that no-one has to start from scratch) -

Solan wrote:
Here again I agree with you. I am reminded of the fact that it is our perception of Source that is ever reflected in our lives, and if we choose to turn from it, we are left with a sense of loss, craving more,

yes, I agree - I think this is the reason for so many of our fellow men craving for goods, attention, food etc. (all sorts of consuming) so very much, i.e. in such an unbalanced way. They sense their loss but cannot tell what it is they are lacking, so they try to compensate by consuming, without realising that all this cannot give them what they need. (Only what they think they want.)
And since this is Samhain time let me add that it is a sad thought that many of them probably die without ever having realised this.

but when we turn to face this source, and accept it without condition in our lives, we find that our very lives are blessed with the continual outpourings of Life and Light and Love.

What do you mean by "accept it without condition"? I am not sure whether we are thinking along the same lines here. I hope you don't mind me asking

I don't mind you asking at all. The asking of questions is one of the best ways to come to understand oneself (in the fact they have to clarify what they express), and also a way for all involved to expand their consciousness of the subject involved.

What I meant when I expressed the phrase " accept it without condition" is the fact that we can get caught up sometimes in the belief that, I will allow the source of light to permeate my life, but not this part or that part. We may feel that parts of ourselves do not fit into that ideal of what the light is, and through that feeling of "not good enough for it" or " I don't want to give that part of myself up" we cut that aspect of ourselves off from that source, thus limiting how that light may in fact come to expression in our lives. For example, you spoke of how many of our fellow men crave goods, and food, and so forth. If we accept the source of light into our lives, but think, I wish for it to permeate my wisdom, or this aspect or that aspect, but NOT say, our diet, or the craving for possessions, we create a "condition" as to what aspects it may permeate and what aspects it may not.
By simply allowing oneself to open fully to the light, and letting it to flow through one in as open a way as possible, and not saying to where in our lives it may flow we allow it it's full expression, and do not limit it through any condition.

@ all: Please feel free to join in the conversation!

In Light,
Andrea

Re: Accepting the Influence of the Light unconditionally

by Solan - Monday, 1 November 2010, 8:21 PM

Greetings Andrea,

I think you did a fine job of compiling our conversations.

I find myself desiring to know your views on my response to the phrase "without condition"

You had stated:
-I am not sure whether we are thinking along the same lines here.

Could you share your feelings concerning this? And i hope too that you do not mind me asking this of you :)

In Light,
Kristian

Re: Accepting the Influence of the Light unconditionally

by Andrea Shelor ** R6 QM6³ H4 QN4 - Tuesday, 2 November 2010, 12:47 AM

Hello Kristian,

no, I do not mind at all

and of course I do intend to give you an answer. I think I will start from one of your last statements and then proceed in chaotic order in order to have some order. wink

(I think I'll keep the colours to highlight quotes... thoughtful

You wrote
> By simply allowing oneself to open fully to the light, and letting it to flow
> through one in as open a way as possible, and not saying to where in our
> lives it may flow we allow it it's full expression, and do not limit it
> through any condition.

and you also wrote
all that is needed is for us to continually work to become more receptive to this wisdom and knowledge in such a way as to allow ourselves to become ever more and more clear expressions of it.

and I really think that this combination is one of the main points the Mysteries are about.
But how can this be done - become more receptive to the wisdom and knowledge, and how can we learn to "simply allowing ourselves to open fully to the Light" - I think that it might probably be not that simple...

Of course, a good training in the Mysteries should do exactly this - help the students of the Mysteries to achieve this. But how? What are the steps necessary to be taken? Where is the manual? big grin

To say it straight away: We do in fact think along the same lines here. I am glad that this is so, and I think I will no longer be amazed at it

In esoterism, and occasionally in serious occultism, too, one of the most obvious and widespread versions of accepting the Light in a most conditioned way is the attitude of "I want to be a healer to heal the world", unfortunately often by people who themselves do very much need healing of their soul first - but will refuse to accept it for themselves, for whatever reasons.
This is a craving not for possessions or food, but for attention and acknowledgement, and probably most of all: compensation.
So this is they want to accept the Light for in the first place: to heal everyone but themselves - and why?
I would like to use your examples as very likely answers:
We may feel that parts of ourselves do not fit into that ideal of what the light is, and through that feeling of "not good enough for it" or " I don't want to give that part of myself up"

These answers are probably the most common ones.
I often had this feeling of being "not good enough" myself, or not wanting to give up that part of myself, and this is not a nice thing to realise because of the self-knowledge involved when you have a closer look nevertheless - and wherever the Light is it will illuminate those spots of our personality that we might prefer to remain hidden in the dark. It is embarrassing, all our faults, our weaknesses... our fears, our anger, our despair.
But it creates tension and conflict to keep it in the dark, it requires us to hide from the Light, and this creates more pain and sadness - we are creatures of the Light no matter what our mistakes and weaknesses are. But on the other hand, to get it all out into the Light you will need to have some help, some advice, in order to cope with whatever problem it is that comes up when the Light illuminates it.

So how do you cope with it, how do you handle it? First of all, do you search a teacher of the Mysteries or do you seek a therapist - what is your goal in life? Which is the general direction? The Mysteries or an average and ordinary life (with less challenges, less responsibilities etc., but also less knowledge, less wisdom).

On the other hand, there is what you called " I don't want to give that part of myself up" and you are perfectly right to mention this, too.
How can we learn to let go of these things. How can we learn to accept that we have to do it in order to become a clear expression of the Light, an Adept, a Tzaddiq. What does this exactly mean in the first place, and is there really no redirecting or anything, so that we can become an Adept and still retain what weaknesses we do not want to give up? (Hope dies last... many try to have both and do not realise they cannot walk into two opposite directions simultaneously.)
We cannot keep all this stuff and still retain our chance to become a clear expression of the LIght.
All these conditions...
We might want to have an alternative way first, in order to be able to let the old ways go. This is also a condition, but one to be expected from the serious and devoted seeker of the Light. One that is necessary, when you look at human nature. The Light will have to allow for it - and it does.

I stop here... this is a very complex but also very interesting subject ... and one that is always a contemporary one, no matter when. I am looking forward to your comments, Kristian, as well as to anybody else's comments, of course!

FFUA
Andrea

Re: Accepting the Influence of the Light unconditionally

by Solan - Tuesday, 2 November 2010, 5:36 AM

Greetings Andrea,

I hope all is well on your side of our world. Fall is definitely beginning to make it's wondrous appearance here, and we are beginning to reach the peak of the seasonal leaf change. Truly a beautiful time here indeed.
Please forgive me for not separating the texts into different colors. I am not completely proficient yet with using such... Given time though I'm sure I'll catch on quickly :)

I agree with all that you have written. You express it so well in fact that it is hard for me to form anything in which I would add. I find myself referring to what you expressed at the beginning to your reply:

Andrea wrote:
We do in fact think along the same lines here. I am glad that this is so, and I think I will no longer be amazed at it :).

There is one thing though that caught my attention and I do wish to highlight it here.

Andrea wrote:
-and wherever the Light is it will illuminate those spots of our personality that we might prefer to remain hidden in the dark. It is embarrassing, all our faults, our weaknesses... our fears, our anger, our despair.

What I feel is particularly important in what you expressed here is highlighted in the word PERSONALITY. It is in our identification with this that does indeed give us those feelings of being embarrassed, experiencing faults, and weaknesses, which manifest in fears, anger and despair. And too it is this personality that gives us those experiences of "I'm not good enough" or more closely " I don't want to give this or that up." These are truly things of the Personality and the Personality only. When we break through the illusion of identifying ourselves with this personality, and realize it is only a tool to be used in the expression of that light, we come to find that those negative experiences begin to diminish due to the fact that we begin to identify ourselves with something we view as eternal, and not consisting of something that only lasts a lifetime. This gives us the ability to understand that those faults are permeable and are a learning experience. This too allows us to realize that our feelings of despair and fear are truly illusions that cannot exist within that light we have come to allow to permeate our lives.

I feel that here, as you I must stop, because as you expressed it, this is a complex subject. I hope that in what I have tried to express I have made what I wished to highlight understandable, if anything is unclear or not well expressed please ask for clarification. I am very interested to see how you and others see this aspect of the personality in connection with this subject.

In Light,
Kristian

Re: Accepting the Influence of the Light unconditionally

by Andrea Shelor ** R6 QM6³ H4 QN4 - Wednesday, 3 November 2010, 7:25 PM

Hello Kristian,

the "peak of the seasonal leaf change" sounds very nice ;-) It is the same here in Germany and all the colours are beautiful indeed.

As to the colours of the text: please do not care too much about this and take any time you like to explore the secrets of the HTML editor. (To enable it visit your profile, click "change profile", look for "show advanced" on the top right side, give it a click, and then there is an option visible at "When editing text" to choose HTML.)
I hope it is OK with you if I continue to use colours when I quote your text, and I hope you like "your colour". If not, please tell me which one you would prefer

And now for something completely different: the personality! ;-)
Thank you very much for your excellent deliberations! There is little more to add, and you expressed your thoughts very clearly and understandable!
This issue is a quite important one that should indeed be given more attention.

You are perfectly right when you point out that it is our identification with our personality that gives us those impressions that make us (seemingly) unable to accept the Light into our lives in an unconditional way. (Seemingly, because sometimes our distinctiveness or ability of discrimination might fail us.)

I consider the identification with our personality not as an illusion, though - the identifiation is real, at least as long as there is any identification there. And even an Adept or Tzaddiq identifies to a certain degree with his personality - he needs to in order to survive on the physical plane - but he is able to do so in a much wiser way

and by the time he has become an Adept or Tzaddiq his personality will have changed considerably from the one he started with, of course.
We already mentioned that we are creatures of the Light - within each and every one of us there is a tiny little spark of the Divine: our soul. With an Adept or Tzaddiq this will show more clearly and in fact, quite obviously - you mentioned this already and you called it o allow ourselves to become ever more and more clear expressions of it. (= of the Light)

You wrote,
and realize it is only a tool to be used in the expression of that light,

and I agree. And I think it is not only our job to use this tool but also to shape and perfect it.

You also wrote,
we come to find that those negative experiences begin to diminish due to the fact that we begin to identify ourselves with something we view as eternal, and not consisting of something that only lasts a lifetime.

and I agree as well. Although I would like to add that this does not necessarily happen "just like that" in all cases, although it often in fact actually does: e.g. in "minor cases": If the identification that troubles us is not a major one, i.e. if there are only few emotional "investments", or not our most important ones, then they can be overcome if not by reason and understanding alone, then certainly by our love and faith and dedication to the Light. But there are "psychic areas" when nothing diminishes, or only tiny little bits from time to time, due to the fact that we are unable to let go: as is the case when for instance trauma is involved. Love and faith and dedication is not enough here, because this is exactly the one situation in which they fail us: when a traumatic situation occurs. This is a great challenge indeed. And as has already been said: we have to make a decision here which direction to choose. Will we be able to walk the path of the Mysteries, or to continue it?
A good Mystery School does have tools and techniques to help their students to master successfully these "great challenges" of life, and therefore help their students to learn and to grow. The Light allows for this: it is a part of the path, and not the least part. But it is demanding. The student has to contribute.

You wrote,
This gives us the ability to understand that those faults are permeable and are a learning experience. This too allows us to realize that our feelings of despair and fear are truly illusions that cannot exist within that light we have come to allow to permeate our lives.

Yes, I agree - it certainly is a learning experience - and often a great challenge. It is the only true adventure there is on our path to true freedom.
However it is only afterwards that one realises the "feelings of despair and fear are truly illusions" because if one does not yet have attained this freedom it is real enough to despair of...

Now, if we were to write a very short manual for beginners on the subject of this thread, or for lazy readers big grin

what would we start with? I suggest that it might contain this:

We consider abandonning the identification with the personality as one of the challenges that our soul has to master, at least up to such an extent that we are able to change or maybe even to discard unfavourable parts of that personality. In doing so this will allow us to identify with something greater than our personality: first with our soul, then step by step with our Higher Self, and finally (step by step) with the Light itself (when we are a "fully grown" Adept or Tzaddiq).

Well, this was just a try, and I did not spend much time on this last bit, in fact. Are you game?

What do you think, what would you change or add, or discard? Is that worth continuing?
Or, I don't know - is it a good idea in the first place to summarise?

Looking forward to your reply,

In Light,
Andrea

Re: Accepting the Influence of the Light unconditionally

by Solan - Wednesday, 3 November 2010, 10:56 PM

Greetings Andrea,

It is great to be hearing from you again. Thank you for your guidance on the character colors. I think after this post I will venture into my profile and play with the instructions you given me so that I may better familiarize myself with the options there.

I feel that I should add I do not mind the "color" you have chosen for me at all.. In fact I find it highly appropriate on many levels :)

I really like the way you clarified things in your response, and I agree completely with all that you had to write.

Andrea wrote:
-I consider the identification with our personality not as an illusion, though -

This was an excellent point to make, and I thank you for expressing it in much better terms than I could at the time. I too felt Illusion was not the correct word, but sadly at the time I could not think of another word no matter how hard I tried. All that you had to express of our relation to the Personality, as well as how the Adept, or Tzaddiq views it, I feel were perfectly expressed, so much so that I find it hard to add anything to it, or respond.

Andrea Wrote:
-Although I would like to add that this does not necessarily happen "just like that" in all cases, although it often in fact actually does: e.g. in "minor cases":
Again I find that your clarification of how some things are more deeply rooted within our personality, and others are more easily worked through, to strike to the heart of the matter when it comes to our work with the personality. I am reminded of the fact that those deep issues that seem to never diminish are those things which shape our lessons in each life, those things in which that part of ourselves behind the personality adds to it's experience of manifestation, now I am not saying that those traumatic experiences are the ONLY thing that comprises of those lessons, but it is these that attribute to the shaping of such things. I am reminded also of the fact that it is these things that give us the understanding to look to someone who comes to us for help and be able to truly say "I Know" what you are going through.

Andrea wrote:
-We consider abandonning the identification with the personality as one of the challenges that our soul has to master, at least up to such an extent that we are able to change or maybe even to discard unfavourable parts of that personality. In doing so this will allow us to identify with something greater than our personality: first with our soul, then step by step with our Higher Self, and finally (step by step) with the Light itself (when we are a "fully grown" Adept or Tzaddiq).

I think this would be a great start to what you suggest. I don't feel that I could honestly add anything to it, because it does sum up a very complex subject beautifully. Too it gives a sufficient amount of summary that if one would wish to "delve" a little bit deeper into what we've been discussing they would have a firm idea of what exactly we've been chatting about here. :)

Again I find myself thoroughly enjoying our exchanges of insight into such deep matters,and I feel I must Thank you, for I find myself through these little exchanges learning much from what you have to express.

In Light,
Kristian

Re: Accepting the Influence of the Light unconditionally

by Andrea Shelor ** R6 QM6³ H4 QN4 - Sunday, 7 November 2010, 11:42 PM

Hello Kristian,

I finally made it to find my way back here

(I am sorry it took so long) and I hope that you have had a nice excursion into your profile - if my guidance was not helpful please let me know by private message so I can improve it.

I am glad to hear I picked the right colour for you ;-)

Thank you very much for your feedback, I do appreciate it very much since the both of us dedicated quite a lot of effort to this thread.
The (in)ability of finding the right words reminds me of another thread we might open up big grin

if we are up to, that is - as far as I remember we had each agreed that the other one of us should start it off, please correct me if I am wrong here wink

I am reminded of the fact that those deep issues that seem to never diminish are those things which shape our lessons in each life, those things in which that part of ourselves behind the personality adds to it's experience of manifestation, now I am not saying that those traumatic experiences are the ONLY thing that comprises of those lessons, but it is these that attribute to the shaping of such things.

Yes, I agree with you.

I am reminded also of the fact that it is these things that give us the understanding to look to someone who comes to us for help and be able to truly say "I Know" what you are going through.

Yes, absolutely!
In fact, it is because you made the experience yourself that you can tell its different stages so very well, and therefore guide another person so much better. And since you are the living example that it can actually be made this might encourage others. (This is especially useful when you are a supervisor or spiritual mentor to other students of the Mysteries.)

I think this would be a great start to what you suggest. I don't feel that I could honestly add anything to it, because it does sum up a very complex subject beautifully.

Thank you ;-) but nevertheless I do hope that sooner or later someone will add something to it, or improve it in other ways - which does not exclude you or me, of course - and I do appreciate your contributions very much indeed, especially because it was you who built the foundation of this paragraph by emphasising the identification with our personality in the first place!

Again I find myself thoroughly enjoying our exchanges of insight into such deep matters,and I feel I must Thank you, for I find myself through these little exchanges learning much from what you have to express.

Well, this is the magic of words, and of exchange of views - I learned a lot too, and I thank you also very much for your valuable ideas and views. I think it is an important subject in the Mysteries, and this forum has been created to make such exchange possible in order that we all might learn and grow. The ancient Qabbalists used to meet and discuss the Mysteries, and so do we.

In Light,

Andrea

Re: Accepting the Influence of the Light unconditionally

by Ichtys - Tuesday, 16 November 2010, 12:33 PM

Dear All,

I may be far too late to add anything of importance to your wonderful discourse, however, I wanted to express how much I enjoyed reading it.

Regarding the light - I think you two said most things that are to be said about these subjects and everyone will find something to agree with.

One tiny addition I would like to make as this insight came to me in a rather spectacular way. Therefore I thought it's too precious to keep it to myself, it's needs to be shared.

"A diamond has to be cut and shaped so that it can reflect the light and sparkle". Let's think of the hardest material we know on this planet. A diamond. It starts out as a mere pebble-like something. Not one bit spectacular. You shine a light on it and...nothing happens. No sparkle, nothing. Only when you take that stone from its earthy home, split it, cut it, shape it and cut it again a thousand times - only then will you get a stone that sparkles and reflects the light in all its brilliance. Spare a thought for the stone... it cannot lie in its earthy home and wish to become a "sparkler" without being cut. It may lose a good part of itself in this process. (Think of self-purgation...you don't come out the same as you went in...) It may well end up half the size, but many times its old brilliance :-)

Cut and shaped in the right way, it cannot only reflect the light, it can direct it as well. Given the right shape and pressure, that little stone could cut its way right into the middle of the earth, it's that hard and that sharp. There is no other material that I know that comes from the earth and reflects the heavenly light like a star. But to do this, it needs to be shaped, cut, split, cut again...

In the same way, we need to be "shaped and cut". We may well end up with half the personality we started out with...but we'll sparkle :-)

Some stones may be purer than others, yes, but then we must accept that we're all different. None of us is like the other and yet we are all of the same source. There's a diamond, there's a brilliant sparkler in all of us. Whether or not we can bring it out and let the light flow through us, whether we can reflect and direct it - that depends very much on our ability and willingness to be shaped.

This insight came to me one lovely day and it came with a medicinal dose of pain. (Just so I'd not forget the lesson...) :-)

I wanted to share this experience with you and encourage everyone not to be afraid. Yes, it will hurt and yes, the pain will go away. Before you enjoy the benefits of letting the light stream into your life, you'll have to pave the way a bit and that's never an easy task. But the rewards are simply out of this world :-)

Thank you,

best wishes,

Ichtys