God and the Qabbalah

God and the Qabbalah

by Tomik (M) -
Number of replies: 17

Hello everyone,

I am very curious to know, what does Qabbalah teach about God? Do Qabbalists generally believe in a personal God that watches over the world, as in Judaism? Or is it a more impersonal concept? How does it work in Qabbalah?

Also, I am interested in knowing, what are the basic differences between traditional Qabbalah and the Qabbalah of the Western Mystery Tradition? When I was younger, I thought that Qabbalah was reserved for Jewish people, being an extension of their religion. Obviously I was wrong about that, but I have a feeling that big differences still exist between the two different interpretations.

Thank you in advance for any help with these questions.

In Light,

Tomik

In reply to Tomik (M)

Re: God and the Qabbalah

by Bumblebee -

Hi Tomik,

I'm taking a liberty to reply to your post because this topic is very dear to my heart.

The relationship of Judaism and Qabbalah is not straightforward and was constantly changing since Judaism as we know it came to existence. The teachings of Qaballah as we know it today is much, much, much more ancient then Judaism. Tradition links the birth of Judaism with a event known as "Revelation of Torah on Mount Sinai" and with a figure of Moses. Until then Hebrews were just a tribe with a dim memory of their patriarch's direct contact with the Divine.

Judaism gave the struggling nomadic tribe a very practical and structured way of building a relationship with Higher Forces (aka worship) on their jorney to the land they wanted to make their home, and direct contact with the Divine was reserved for priests and kings. This approach is not unique - all ancient traditions seem to agree that people of high status that don't have to work for their daily bread have better chances to succeed in their initatory training. There were other valid reasons for such structure - this is a lofty topic on its own, and I will not discuss it in this post.

The term Qabbalah (Kabbalah) was introduced much later, probably in the middle ages, but nobody knows for sure.

Modern Judaism has so many different flavors and they all have different view and opinion  of Qabbalistic thought. Addressing all of them in one forum post is not possible.

I like to think about traditional Jewish Kabbalah (this is a traditional spelling fof Jewish version of it) as mystical teaching of Judaism. To me, this is the best way to describe this relationship in the particual branch of faith I personally follow. This is why traditional Kabbalah always was so strict and required conversion into Judaism for initiates. Judaism (established daily religious practice) was a pre-requisite for mystery study. It was very important to filter out folks willing to work with their mind only - this is because "understanding" of the Divine is not possible using only "thinking mind". Religious (devotional ritual) practice involves the whole being. It also helped to verify that the student of mysteries is really serious and not a "dabbler". So to answer your question - Jewish Kabbalah is not really "extension" of Judaism, but rather "deepening" of it.

Now for the Qabbalah - there were always attempts of the living teaching itself to break through the tenets of Judaism. This resulted in offspring of mystery schools in middle ages across Europe (mostly Spain) where Qallalistic thought flourished. Christians, Muslims, and Jews studied together. This is what I beleive we are trying to revive nowadays. It is time for the living tradition to become available for all serious and capable students.

With Light,

Bumblebee.

In reply to Bumblebee

Re: God and the Qabbalah

by Tomik (M) -

Hi Bumblebee

Thank you for the fascinating reply! I really find this subject very interesting. Do you know of any good books that cover the history in depth? Not so much the teachings, but ones that focus on the history?

In reply to Tomik (M)

Re: God and the Qabbalah

by Bumblebee -

Hi Tomik,

There are many good books on history of Kabbalah - but because this is such a vast topic, most of them cover just one aspect of it.

I like books of Aryeh Kaplan. His "Kabbalah and meditation" covers a lot of history of Kabbalistic thought - the focus of this book has been on meditaiton and it contains some very advanced practices as well as historical aspects. "Jewish meditation" sheds some lights on historical reasons of many prohibitions in Judaism concerning study of Kabbalah.  If you look at his other books, you will find some history in all of them.

Another little book I can recommend is "A guide to the Zohar" by Arthur Green. This book in particular focuses on a history of a one of the most famous Kabbalistic texts called "Sefer Hazohar" (Book of Splendor) - great read if you like history.

Also take a look at books by Z'ev ben Shimon Halevi - this author is focuses on the teaching more -  not sure if there will be enough history there - probably some.

Adin Steinsaltz writes extensively on different aspects of Judaism and includes a lot of historical aspects. His books are not an easy read, but well worth an effort - he is a luminary of modern Jewish thought.

Sadly, there are a lot of books out there that are not good. Serious authors are rare.

This thread maybe belongs in some other place - but for now I will keep it here unless we are told otherwise.

With Light,

Bumblebee.

In reply to Tomik (M)

Re: God and the Qabbalah

by Andrea Shelor ** R6, QM6 H4 QN4 -
Picture of Head Moderator Picture of Qabbalah Maasit Practitioner Picture of Refuah Practitioner Picture of Refuah Teacher

Hello Tomik and Bumblebee,

I would like to join this most interesting conversation. (However let us all continue to mind the rules (esp. part 8) in order to avoid any trouble.)

As to books on the history of Qabbalah, in most cases Gershom Scholem is added to the list, e.g. "Major Trends in Jewish Mysticism". Do you know any of his books?

Bumblebee , you recommended Aryeh Kaplan, and I have got both the books you mentioned, although managed to read only a third one so far ("Meditation and the Bible" which I quite liked. Do you know this as well?

Bumblebee, you wrote
< Judaism (established daily religious practice) was a pre-requisite for mystery study

Yes, this was so indeed. Thorough and comprehensive training certainly is of high importance. It is not only today that we are confronted with probllems caused by superficial knowledge and even superstition. Dion Fortune already complained about such things, and also Qabbalists of ancient times have certainly known such experience already. 
Therefore I am really glad that now we have got our online course in both German and English available. This way we can reach far more interested students of the mysteries as would be possible by personal training only. (Of course we support the latter following the former, but we have to take one step after the other.)

Salomo Baal-Shem explains in "Qabbalistic Magic" several important terms of Qabbalistic thinking and weltanschauung, that readers can apply to their lives quite easily and which also allow to rely to the old Qabbalists more easily. Although he does not refer to the history explicitly, he nevertheless covers this subject by briefly introducing some important Qabbalists and by highlighting magic practices throughout the times. (Magic considered as "practical Qabbalah")

In Light,
Andrea

In reply to Andrea Shelor ** R6, QM6 H4 QN4

Re: God and the Qabbalah

by Tomik (M) -

Hello everyone,

However let us all continue to mind the rules (esp. part 8) in order to avoid any trouble

Sorry, that was my fault, I should have probably asked Bumblebee to me PM me those book titles.

Anyway, thanks bumblebee for the tips. I will be sure to try and find those books, hopefully this weekend. My city has one of the largest French libraries in the world but unfortunately the section on 'kabbalah' is very limited.

From what I've been able to find out from personal research, and I may definitely be wrong, is that modern Jewish qabbalah seems to be much more mystical as opposed to magical. Although I could be mistaken, but I have read some books by a popular Rabbi on the subject (I won't mention his name) but he seems to be very anti magic. I am looking forward to reading Salomo Baal-Shem's Qabbalistic Magic in order to hear the other side of the story. Obviously, I don't think magic is wrong, I actually think the Rabbi has misunderstood what magic is. He seems to think it is just petty charms and love spells.

In Light,

Tomik


In reply to Tomik (M)

Re: God and the Qabbalah

by Andrea Shelor ** R6, QM6 H4 QN4 -
Picture of Head Moderator Picture of Qabbalah Maasit Practitioner Picture of Refuah Practitioner Picture of Refuah Teacher

Hello Tomik,

sorry, probably I did not make the reasons for my hint to the rules clear enough. This was just preventive in order to avoid such discussions that might violate the rules. Talking about books might easily lead to such discussions that might make people or organizations feel offended or that could create the impression of someone advertising or attacking a certain author or organization.

< I actually think the Rabbi has misunderstood what magic is. He seems to think it is just petty charms and love spells. >

Unfortunately this is what many people seem to think. 
Recently I had a look into a scientific book on magic and occultism (or rather a book written by a scientist) that mentioned there were only two sorts of magic: natural magic and black magic.  I could only shake my head on this...  (Of course, I did not buy the book.)

< I am looking forward to reading Salomo Baal-Shem's Qabbalistic Magic in order to hear the other side of the story.>

The book will serve this goal well ;-)

In Light,
Andrea

In reply to Andrea Shelor ** R6, QM6 H4 QN4

Re: God and the Qabbalah

by Bumblebee -

The topic of magic vs. mysticism often comes up in spiritual study groups. I think we are having some problem with terminology here. I completely agree with Andrea that "Qabbalistic Magic" sheds a lot of light on this controversy.

I can offer my personal opinion on some reasons for such controversy in Judaism. One of them was to prevent damage that "untrained operator" could cause to himself and other. Because magic unleashes the hidden potenial of human being - it is really important to know how to use it. Most people can't figure it out on their own! Without personal training practicing advanced ritual is risky. Don't forget that ancient sages spent a lot of time thinking about it and "designing" practices that are offering a path of return but yet "safe" for followers of a particular teaching scattered among other "tribes"! And without internet, TV, or public libraries! (Don't forget that the vast majority of humanity in those days was simply illiterate)!   If I was one of the ancient rabbis back in year 1200, I would probably do the same thing! The serious seekers  were always able to overcome the prohibition and find teachers.

In Light,

Bumblebee.

In reply to Bumblebee

Re: God and the Qabbalah

by Andrea Shelor ** R6, QM6 H4 QN4 -
Picture of Head Moderator Picture of Qabbalah Maasit Practitioner Picture of Refuah Practitioner Picture of Refuah Teacher

Hello Bumblebee,

< If I was one of the ancient rabbis back in year 1200, I would probably do the same thing!

yes, indeed. 
Also, any advanced knowledge might be abused by those not yet in inner harmony and lacking altruism- just like any other knowledge, or tool, in fact.

< The serious seekers  were always able to overcome the prohibition and find teachers.

Yes, I think you are right. Do you have any idea why this is so?

In Light, 
Andrea

In reply to Andrea Shelor ** R6, QM6 H4 QN4

Re: God and the Qabbalah

by Bumblebee -

< The serious seekers  were always able to overcome the prohibition and find teachers.

Yes, I think you are right. Do you have any idea why this is so?>

Strong and permanent intention and prayer to receive instruction generate a powerful vibration that can penetrate higher worlds. "When the student is ready, the teacher comes".

In Light,

BB

In reply to Bumblebee

Re: God and the Qabbalah

by Andrea Shelor ** R6, QM6 H4 QN4 -
Picture of Head Moderator Picture of Qabbalah Maasit Practitioner Picture of Refuah Practitioner Picture of Refuah Teacher

Hello Bumblebee,

can you (or everybody here, of course ;-) think of any other reasons or requirements?

or do everybody think this will suffice?

e.g. which "ingredients" exactly should be contained in this "powerful vibration" that you mentioned, etc Tradition mentions quite a few.

In Light,
Andrea

In reply to Andrea Shelor ** R6, QM6 H4 QN4

Re: God and the Qabbalah

by Bumblebee -

Hi Andrea,

I was suspecting that this thread might be off-topic a little, although I personally think that book dicussion should be a part of learning, and we should have a place where people can share opinions on books they read on related subject as long as we obey the rules of the forum and respect others.

Does your school have a list of "recommended" books? For those of us who are bookworms (like myself) it would be quite beneficial. If we had such a list, we could discuss them freely and stay out of trouble.

I'm offering my help starting this list (subject for approval by the school) if you like this idea.

You wrote:

"you recommended Aryeh Kaplan, and I have got both the books you mentioned, although managed to read only a third one so far ("Meditation and the Bible" which I quite liked. Do you know this as well?"

I didn't read this book yet, but looking forward to it.

In Light,

Bumblebee.

In reply to Bumblebee

Re: God and the Qabbalah

by Andrea Shelor ** R6, QM6 H4 QN4 -
Picture of Head Moderator Picture of Qabbalah Maasit Practitioner Picture of Refuah Practitioner Picture of Refuah Teacher

Hello Bumblebee,

< I was suspecting that this thread might be off-topic a little, >

do you see a problem with this? If so we could try and divide the discussion into two threads.

< although I personally think that book dicussion should be a part of learning,

so do I. But this is an open forum, open to anyone,  So the reference to the rules was actully directed to anyone, not specifically to you and Tomik. Now I realise that this might in fact have caused the misunderstanding that we are obviously facing???
If so, sorry. I was not aware of this. If I had been aware of it I had made it more clearly what my concerns are.

I wrote, However let us all continue to mind the rules and this means that no-one of us had yet violated any.

< and we should have a place where people can share opinions on books they read on related subject as long as we obey the rules of the forum and respect others.

Such a place is in preparation. is it OK for you to wait a bit for it?

< Does your school have a list of "recommended" books? For those of us who are bookworms (like myself) it would be quite beneficial. If we had such a list, we could discuss them freely and stay out of trouble.

There is such a list, here. It is rather old and will soon be updated and made availabe on the English website as well, I guess.

Andrea

In reply to Andrea Shelor ** R6, QM6 H4 QN4

Re: God and the Qabbalah

by Bumblebee -

Hi Andrea - thanks for the link. I probably didn't find it because it is in German section of the website.

In Light,

Bumblebee.

In reply to Bumblebee

Re: God and the Qabbalah

by Andrea Shelor ** R6, QM6 H4 QN4 -
Picture of Head Moderator Picture of Qabbalah Maasit Practitioner Picture of Refuah Practitioner Picture of Refuah Teacher

Hi Bumblebee,

I appreciate that you looked for it nevertheless ;-) 
As we go along, bit by bit, our international website will grow, just like our course.

In Light,
Andrea

In reply to Andrea Shelor ** R6, QM6 H4 QN4

Re: God and the Qabbalah

by taoist -

Has anyone done any reading of "Franz Bardon's " work on the Qabbalah.

I have read his books and I'm not so much in to the intellectual side these days but have practiced with some of the different combinations of letters and sounds and light and had a few interesting experiences that to me give credence and validity and most of all respect for his system.  I have even wrote a database on my computer that has his system categorized by element, color, letter, and sound.

I look forwards to interacting with everyone in the spirit of joy.

In reply to taoist

Re: God and the Qabbalah

by Drifter -

I believe I am not mistaken, Salamo Baal Shem states that Dion Fortune began her own school of Esoterica.? I forget, the name

In reply to Drifter

Re: God and the Qabbalah

by Vheng M -
Hi Drifter,

Her school is called Society of the Inner Light.  Sorry for the belated reply.

Regards.

LVX,
Vheng